New TOU

topic posted Wed, December 7, 2005 - 2:22 PM by  offlineMT™
As moderator, I will be forced to review the gallery of Naked Sun and remove all photos in violation of pornography, obscenity, etc before the 2oth...

This sucks, but as I feel the board is more about the connections we can make between people, and photos may be shared in a nuber of ways, it shouldn't discourage the use of the forum for those interested in a dialogue.

If you still wanna show more of yourself, get a Flickr account and we'll have a thread where we can share links...

My apologies...

MT
posted by:
MT™
SF Bay Area
  • Re: New TOU

    Wed, December 7, 2005 - 3:37 PM
    This tribe is currently not marked as mature, nor does it contain any images that would likely be a violation of the new TOU. I'm sorry that you think that these changes suck, but they are necessary for Tribe to protect itself legally.

    Here is a good FAQ from the EFF for bloggers that also relates somewhat to Tribe:
    www.eff.org/bloggers/lg/faq-adult.php

    People are discussing this issue more in the Tribe Ideas tribe: tribeideas.tribe.net

    And, to clarify, Flickr also has a clause that prohibits obscene materials in their TOU:
    www.flickr.com/terms.gne

    cheers,
    jenni
    Tribe DBA
    • Re: New TOU

      Tue, December 27, 2005 - 5:23 PM
      I've had to petition to have this tribe redesignated back to public once already, due to photos submitted by members.
      It sucks, in that I have been put in the position to police all my communities and scan their pictures instead of reply to messages in them due to time constraints in my online activities (IE a life).

      I get the situation Tribe is in,
      I've researched 2257 and it's main proponents.
      Doesn't change my opinion that it sucks.
      Necessary, sure.
      Shitty? In my opinion, yes.

      Remember when everyone had a right to a different opinion?
      • Re: New TOU

        Mon, January 2, 2006 - 3:03 PM
        All I said was that I'm sorry that you think it sucks; I assure you that I'm not attacking your right to an opinion :)

        Personally, I think that features like community flagging will allow tribes to police themselves internally more in the future, so that you won't have to, and that this is a good thing. If someone decides to upload a photo of a wierd alien with it's cock out, spooging all over a naked woman's breasts (as happened last time), people who are offended will be able to flag the photo for removal, and do so without your intervention.

        I just wanted to point out that I don't think that Tribe is the evil asshole here, and that although the system is changing, it's nothing unheard of as far as other online communities are concerned. You specifically mentioned Flickr, so I just wanted to point out that they have a similar TOU.

        This is a tricky set of changes, and I realize that it's hard to convey all of the changes in a short period of time without suprising people, but that in the end, very little will change.
    • Re: New TOU

      Fri, December 30, 2005 - 12:39 AM
      Well....Jenni....I don't necessarily agree with you. I think a lot of what is going on with the TOU has to do with marketing Tribe.

      And, by the way, don't know if you realized that a Federal District Court Judge in SoCal this week enjoined application of portions of 2257 (www.freespeechcoalition.com/2257...htm).

      And....I'm curious....Jenni....did the powers that be at tribe take any sort of action (i.e. joining in the free speech coalition action) to protect free speech, or did they place their commercial interest first ? Just wondering.
      • Re: New TOU

        Mon, January 2, 2006 - 3:25 PM
        I was on holiday last week, so I didn't see the ruling, thanks for the link! I have passed it on to a couple of my coworkers who are also interested in this case, and want to see where it goes from there.

        I'm not a lawyer, nor am I in complete understanding of what Tribe's exact position is here. My understanding is that we have made changes in order to legally protect ourselves, and that's enough for me. While the Tribe employees may seem like brainless, undead stooges to you out there, they're real, intelligent, and cool people in the office to me, and I trust them to do the right thing for Tribe.

        And as for free speech, I thought that the mature designation actually stifled free speech in some ways, by ghetto-izing and hiding events, tribes, and listings that contained anything even moderately adult, like the word "fuck" in a title, or the image of a female nipple. Now, by using a more standard definition of what can, and cannot be uploaded/posted to Tribe, I think that we can include even more content, and not shunt adult topics off to the wayside.

        That's my opinion.
        • Re: New TOU

          Wed, January 4, 2006 - 12:20 AM
          Welcome back from holiday Jenni....hope you were somewhere warm and dry.

          You are certainly entitled to your opinion. It seems to me, however, that tribe's reaction to the 2257 scare is way out of proportion (at least to what other relatively mainstream sites out there are doing....check out craigslist lately ??).

          I'm not accusing anybody of being a braindead stooge. To the contrary. I think mainstreaming and homoginizing (sp ?) tribe is smart.....from a purely commercial, lets make lots of money from tribe perspective. So, if the "real" and "cool" people at tribe are trying to set tribe up to make them mucho dinero, they seem to be on the right path (witness the increased advertising, censorship, flagging, etc....). Hey, its America. Go to town. I just think its sad they are putting commercial gain over community, connection, and fighting for what is right. But....that is just my opinion.

          Interesting perspective you have that censoring communication serves to enhance free speech. My only thought is.....Orwell.

          And....I'm glad you feel free to express your opinion. Just make darn sure that it doesn't "offend" anybody, and you don't express your "opinion" in the form of an "innapropriate" image (pictures = speech too).

          I appreciate the dialogue though Jenni. And thanks for passing the link around.
          • Re: New TOU

            Wed, January 4, 2006 - 12:19 PM
            After rereading my comment about the mature designation, and your response, it's clear that I didn't do a very good job at explaining my point. I thought that by separating out mature content from the rest, we made it harder for users to post anything of an adult nature and have it viewed by the general population.

            This was because we didn't have a good, community guideline for what "mature" meant, and rarely did everyone agree. In order to protect users who didn't want to see mature content, almost *anything* that could remotely be considered mature was often flagged, and the decisions that were acted out by TOUGuy were often seen as overreacting. There were a lot of unhappy people.

            Now, there is a standard. It allows users to discuss FAR more adult topics out in the open that we didn't have before, post nude pictures (as long as they aren't sexually explicit), have heated debate with stronger language, and remove the tribes that discussed and contained images of breast feeding from the mature zone.

            Also, I feel that Tribe contains a more alternative/freak/etc community than other online places, and that by not forcing mature content to be separated from the rest, and putting the flagging tools in the hands of that community empowers users to impact their own standard. For the rest, there's private mode.

            And, at the risk of being too long-winded, I'll point out craigslist has a similar prohibition in their TOU as our own. While they do have a warning page in front of casual encounters, they also have this:

            from www.craigslist.org/about/te....use.html :

            b) that is pornographic or depicts a human being engaged in actual sexual conduct including but not limited to (i) sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex, or (ii) bestiality, or (iii) masturbation, or (iv) sadistic or masochistic abuse, or (v) lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person;

            I am also enjoying this dialogue Mickey, I'm sorry for not being able to revisit this tribe as often during the day.
            • Re: New TOU

              Thu, January 5, 2006 - 8:38 AM
              I'm enjoying this too!

              PS if the 1st link fails, cut the ). of the end...
              • Re: New TOU

                Fri, January 20, 2006 - 10:27 PM
                Is the disconnect with the very vocal group of long term users over the new layout something that could be approached?
                This new load has a lot of people really miffed or angry (red....duh) or logging off due to headaches...
                Are Wade and Elliot really listening to the slew of web designers and artists (tow grous we have a lot of) when we discuss asthetics... Let's avoid the topic of topics and organization for the moment...

                Forgive me if it's asking too much,
                I just feel like I get a bit clearer answers from you here than I have gotten elsewhere...
                • Re: New TOU

                  Mon, January 23, 2006 - 10:03 AM
                  For everyone else reading this, there are two tribes that have had a lot of activity in the past severay days about the new layout of tribe:

                  tribeideas.tribe.net
                  and
                  tribes.tribe.net/newlook

                  Unfortunately, I've been really busy looking at performance/database issues and must admit that I have not had the time to keep up 100% with these tribes, there have been over 1,000 posts in the past 4 days to the New Look tribe alone! However, Elliot IS reading each and every post (although probably not over the weekend), and we are taking user feedback into consideration. While I really don't think that the old look of Tribe will magically come back, there are going to be some changes in response to the feedback. I know that eventually we're going to let users have more control over what appears on their home page (ie, blog posts from friends only), and more control over which listings appear. I also know that there will probably be some refinements to the way that the pages appear, in response to concerns that the bright white and wider layout is too stressful on the eyes. However, this isn't anything new. Elliot's post here is probably the best thing to go on:

                  tribes.tribe.net/newlook/t...867cfe8768
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: New TOU

                    Tue, February 14, 2006 - 11:28 AM
                    to follow up on this issue, Flickr recently changed their TOU to include this paragraph in their "do not" section:

                    "* Upload photos that include frontal nudity, genitalia or anything else that your bathing suit should cover in public areas of Flickr.

                    If you do we'll make your photostream private and remind you of this Guideline. If you don't heed our warning and continue to make similar content public, we'll terminate your account without warning. This applies to your Buddy Icon as well."

                    link: flickr.com/guidelines.gne

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